Claus Lauter: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Ywe Travel Podcast. Today we wanna talk about a country that is not on everyone’s travel list. It’s, , in the middle of Central Asia. It’s opic is done. So we wanna find out why Uzbekistan should be on your travel list. For that, I have a guest on the show today, Sophie Ibbotson She’s a consultant and writer specializing in Central Asia. Where she has worked since 2008. She’s the chairman of the Royal Society of Asian Affairs, director of the Silk Road Literacy Festival, and Opics and Ambassador for Tourism. So she’s definitely the right person to talk to. Hi Sophie. How are you today? Hi there. I’m Sophie Ibbotson: very well. Thank you, Claus Lauter: Sophie. Before we get started, always talking about traveling. Always want to know what is your first childhood memory on traveling? Sophie Ibbotson: My first childhood memory must be camping in France. When I was a child, we lived in the south of England and taking the ferry to France, usually in the rain was our summer holiday every year. , and I have great memories of particularly eating chips, , and going swimming and riding my bicycle around a, campsite that I think probably was filled entirely other English families, but I loved. Claus Lauter: Okay, that sounds great. Good start. Now you are not only living and working in Ostan, you also have written, , some guide books about Ostan and Tajikistan. So what got you to [00:02:00] Ostan? Sophie Ibbotson: I was always very, very interested in travel and when I was a student, I thought that my life would be ties to South Asia rather than Central Asia. So at university I studied Hindi and Ur. I went to university for a year in India, and after I graduated with some friends, I thought, well, flying home is boring. Why don’t we drive? So to make it even harder for ourselves, we had two Auto Rick Shores, the three wheel tuks, and we decided to drive back from India to the uk and that route took us across. Through Pakistan, up the Kaur Highway to China, and then over the Toro got pass into Stan. And if you’ve ever been in a tuk, you’ll know that these are very much fair weather vehicles. They’re not designed for snow, they’re not designed for ice. But the winter had come early in Stan. we ended up coming through the mountains at very high altitude in these ridiculous and very untouchable vehicles. And we decided that actually this was a very, very stupid thing indeed. We were going to get ourselves killed and we thought the best thing to do was to sit in Kierstan and wait until the spring came and we could continue our journey. [00:03:00] Fate, I think, had very different ideas. I got offered a job in Kirstan and that was 2008, and now here we 14, 15 years on, , I’m still working in Central Asia. The auto rituals never made it out of Bke, but it was an introduction, an unexpected introduction to a region that I’ve become very passionate about. Okay. Claus Lauter: That’s one of the stories where life dictates where you are heading to and not really planned. Sounds great. Now you are obviously very close. Central Asia is nothing that people have on their main map. I haven’t been in this region. I’ve traveled a lot, but not in this regions. All the countries was a still on my todo list. this is a very famous route. This silk growth is very famous, Stan small country, former Soviet Union. Tell me a little bit about the country. Sophie Ibbotson: the first thing to challenge you, people think of Pakistan as a small country, but it’s not actually, it’s about the same size as Spain in, , land area, same size as California, or if you’re thinking about it in the terms of United States. So it’s a fairly substantial land area, , geographically, very, very varied from, deserts and step in the west all the way through to high [00:04:00] mountains in the east. And if you look at a. Central Asia. I mean, , it’s in the name, it is in the center of the region. And it was Pakistan in particular. We called the heart of the Silk Road because of its location. There were always people traveling, whether they were armies, whether they were pilgrims, whether they were merchants, and they were coming from, Turkey and Iran and the Gulf in the west, , from Afghanistan. South Asia, China, Russia, all of the surrounding areas. And if they wanted to go somewhere else, they had to pass through what is as be done. And that’s a bit why it became not. Not only such a wealthy place in the ancient medieval period, but also a place of great culture of learning. And the cities that were built there, in particular places like BCCA, and Kiva, all of which are UNESCO world heritage sites. Now were considered to be some of the great cities of the ancient medieval world. Okay. You say, Claus Lauter: so it’s a vast country, different regions, probably a lot of different. society’s there or , what’s the wipe in the country? How does it feel? Sophie Ibbotson: it’s a very laid back [00:05:00] country. It’s a very easy country to travel, which is something that people are often quite surprised about, particularly if they’ve traveled previously in the Middle East or in India where things can be quite hectic. Pakistan people tend to be quite calm, very. , things are relatively well organized and that makes for an easy travel experience. Claus Lauter: Okay. What kind of plan would you have in mind traveling the country? Are there specific regions or specific cities or side things, , think that you need to go to and you should have on your list? Sophie Ibbotson: On a first visit to Stan, the UNESCO World Heritage sites are the Mass Sea. You can’t go to Stan and not go to the Stan in Samand. It would be like going to, , Paris and not seeing Na the Eiffel Tower or going to India and not seeing the Taj Maal. So Summer Can , is the absolute must see site, but also the , UNESCO sites in bca, Kiva, and Shackle subs are equally extraordinary. If you’ve only got about a week, I generally say to people that you’ll fly into Ta Kent, which is the capital, and then go to Sam Candon Bcca, and you can [00:06:00] do those three cities easily in a week because there’s a high speed. Which links them together. , the transport becomes very easy. If you’ve got 10 days or then you’d go out to the western part of the Pakistan as well. , you’d go to Kiva, which has got a magnificent world, city with some fabulous monuments. But I also suggest going up to Caro Pakistan, which is an autonomous republic in the northwest of Pakistan. , and there’s a huge amount of archeological sites there. Very, very important fortresses, , Zian. Tower of silence, , Mosier, all sorts of very, very interesting ancient sites, but also the remains of the rlc, , which most people are aware of because of , the great environmental disaster. , but it’s also an extraordinary landscape. Claus Lauter: Okay. What kind of traveler will you find in Osbi Town? Is it more solo travelers, adventure travelers, individual travelers or group organized travelers? Sophie Ibbotson: the travelers who come tobe are a real mix. , in terms of visitors from Europe, I think the average age probably is 55. , and there’s a lot of people who come on organized group tours, cultural trips , to go to the Silk Road [00:07:00] cities. However, if you look at the independent travelers, they’re a very, very different demographic. They tend to be younger, , traveling on more of a budget and a lot more adventurous. And certainly if you go to some of the less visited destinations, perhaps to, , 10, for example, in the southern part of Pakistan, or if you go into the mountains there, you tend to find people who are people who want to do some climbing, mountain biking, even skiing, or who have got a particular passion for example, star gazing or bird watching, or arche. Okay. Claus Lauter: You just mentioned budgeting. There’s something for everyone, but , what do you need to budget for a trip for like a 10 day trip in as bigs done? Sophie Ibbotson: The budget you have is going to completely depend on what sort of accommodation you want to have. , there are places where you can easily spend 10, $15 a night and stay somewhere quite comfortable. , but there are other places. If you want a five star hotel, then you’re going to be looking at a hundred, $120 by international standards, that’s still very cheap. , but , it does impact , your budget. , typically if you’re eating in a reasonable restaurant,[00:08:00] , dinner will cost you under $5. A beer, one or $2, depending on the sort of restaurant that you are in. And public transport, including the high speed train, is also very cheap. Claus Lauter: Okay. Talking about food, most of our travelers are foodies and wanna explore whatever’s offered in the restaurant or wherever they can get some food. Tell me a little bit about how it is in Obi is done. What can I expect? Sophie Ibbotson: One of the advantages of being in the middle of the Silk road is that as Pakistan has had gastronomic exchange with everywhere around it, so you’ll always something that you recognize. The national dish is called plot. And it has, , UNESCO Intangible Cultural Heritage status and is very similar to a PAU or a biani or a risotto or even a paella because those are dishes, rice based dishes with a selection of meats or fish and vegetables and , the concepts traveled along the Silk Road. There are different variations. Wherever you. Oz Pakistan is very proud of its plot, and even from one town or city to the next, the recipe is slightly different and everybody will tell you that their version is the absolute best. Apart from [00:09:00] that, , there is Luman, which is , a noodle based dish. , many soups, many salads, because there’s a lot of quite fertile agricultural land in as Pakistan, particularly in the east of the country. , amazing fresh bread called non, Sama, which are pastries very similar to an Indian Sam. And Monty, which is a esteemed dumpling. All of those things, very, very tasty. A lot of kebabs as well. Some people, , tell me that if they’re a vegetarian, they find it a little bit difficult, , because there’s not a lot of variety in non meat dishes. But there is always fresh fruit. There is always fresh vegetables, , grilled vegetables as well. And there are some very good, , vegetarian variations of popular dishes. , for example, the Monte dumplings I mentioned commonly might be filled with. potato, for example. But there are also really good versions which are filled with pumpkin or with spinach. You can survive as a vegetarian. Okay. Claus Lauter: Definitely made me heart hungry when it comes , to. Communicating with the locals, do we get lost in translation or can you get around with English? How does that work Sophie Ibbotson: in tourist areas? , a wide variety of languages are [00:10:00] spoken. The main, , languages spoken in ISBE itself by local people would be obe. Russian because of , the Soviet legacy and also languages like Taik because there’s a big ethnic, , group within Pakistan. But increasingly people in schools are learning English. And anybody within the tourism sector, whether you’re talking about hotels, , drivers, people working at tourist attractions will speak some English. You also often in places like Bcca find a number of people who will speak French or Spanish or German, , because the tourists who come to ES Pakistan come from all around the world. Claus Lauter: Okay, sounds great. Now you have been living in a country for quite some time. is the one thing that somebody must do, which is not in a guide book? Sophie Ibbotson: , it is in the guidebook, but I would certainly recommend it and it might be something that surprises you and that is to take the metro when you are in Ta Kent. Which is the capital, has got this absolutely extraordinary subway system that was built from the 1970s onwards and every single station. In the older part of the metro system was designed by a different architect and artist. [00:11:00] So there’s one, for example, called a Novo, which is inspired by a medieval poet , and writer who’s considered to be the father of a spec literature. So that metro station feels almost like a mosque with beautiful painted domes and with panels depicting scenes from his different poetry. There’s. A metro station called CoSort, which is dedicated to the Soviet Program. And so you’ve got like gag Garrin on the walls and all of these different, , astronauts, famous figures, others which are decorated with mosaics or with. Fantastic chandeliers. , and so it really is a bit like being in a, public art gallery in a public space and for about 10 cents you can get a metro and get on and off at as many of the platforms as you want to see these extraordinary stations. Claus Lauter: no, that sounds great. It’s definitely an adventure within the adventure. Now, how do you get to touch can specifically from Europe, if you’re from Europe, do you need to apply for Visa? What’s the best way to get there? Sophie Ibbotson: Be now is Visa free for more than 90 nationalities, and that includes all EU passport holders and also [00:12:00] UK passport So most people will not need a visa at all for up to a 30 day visit. If you do need a visa, there is an E visa system, which works reasonably well. , so the actual bureaucracy is quite straightforward in terms of the flights as Pakistan Airways, which is the national airline. To a number of European destinations direct. So you can fly, for example, from Frankfurt, from London. , if you are living in an area where there is not a Asbe Airways flight, my suggestion at the moment is Turkish Airlines, because Turkish Airlines has , very good connectivity via Istanbul. , and then, , daily flights from Istanbul, not only to Ta Kent, but also to Samand and b. Claus Lauter: Okay. Sounds great. So I think definitely a country that people should put on their travel list. Sounds very interesting, lots of seen to do there. Where can people find out more about you and the books that you have written? Sophie Ibbotson: The guidebook that I’ve written is Stan, and it’s published by UK publisher Brat Guides. So that’s widely available in bookshops and also from Amazon and from Brad’s own. In terms of [00:13:00] more general tourist information, the official tourism website is Stan Travel, and that’s the one which is run by the Ministry of Tourism. And they’ve got some good information on there. you can also follow them on social media at, you said BCO Travel, and you can follow me at Use Ambassador on Twitter and on I. Claus Lauter: Okay, I will put the links in the show notes, then you’ll just one click away. Sophie, thanks so much for giving us a short introduction into Ostan, very interesting country and I hope that you will see a lot of my listeners very soon in the country. , Sophie Ibbotson: I hope to see you and stand soon too. Claus Lauter: I will put it on my list. Thanks so much. Thank

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